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[Music]

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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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from Australia for science and reason

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[Music]

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[Applause]

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[Music]

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hello and welcome to the skeptic Zone

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podcast episode 498 for the 6th of May

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2018 richardsaunders here with you

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surrounded by Henry oh Henry and it's

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just going outside the door of the

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studio and more have more Ducati as them

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sitting on the other chair enjoying the

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morning coming up on this week's show we

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chat to an old friend of mine Michael

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Cruz all the way from Canada

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Michael's involved with bad science

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watch Canada and there's been some loopy

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news coming out of Canada lately

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regarding homeopathic remedies for for

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nervous tension or bad behavior or

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something like that based on rabies

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rabid dog saliva no it's not a joke or

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is it no it's not a joke we're going to

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find out more from Michael Cruz and also

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an update on the current situation in

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Canada regarding naturopaths homeopaths

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and what some of the chiropractors have

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been up to following that we have a

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promo for the upcoming Australian

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skeptics National Convention right here

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in Sydney in October Maynard will read

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out a promo you can learn about who's

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coming along where it's going to be held

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when you can get your tickets what you

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can expect and news about a crash always

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we hope one of the better sceptical

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events in the world

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the Australian skeptics National

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Convention following that Maynard comes

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back Maynard skeptics in the pub may not

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spooky action spooky action in the pub

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the other night here in Sydney we had

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our friend and committee member of

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Australian skeptics Ian Bryce who is a

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rocket scientist give a talk about the

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life and works of Stephen Hawking very

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well attended very interesting night may

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not well we let him off the leash a

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little bit ease and running around

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chatting to all sorts of people about

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all sorts of things sometimes about

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Stephen Hawking sometimes about

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skepticism and sometimes about James

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Bond yeah but also visiting us with some

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people from South

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Africa and they have some interesting

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stories to tell about the current

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situation of well some of us the whoo

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and OH goings-on in South Africa and

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following that is another promotion for

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an upcoming convention saikhan si si

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convention in Las Vegas later in the

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year in fact also in October find out

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more about that near the end of the show

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now I want to remind the people here in

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Australia you can start to think about

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or even write in your nomination for

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this year's bent spoon award for the

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most preposterous piece of paranormal or

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pseudo scientific people in Australia

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Australian wacky invention or Australian

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so-called healer or a government agency

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here in Australia or the person who made

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this chair which keeps creaking if you

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think you know somebody or an

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organization institution who is

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particularly noteworthy when it comes to

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pseudoscience or quackery visit skeptics

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calm today you follow the links in you

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too can nominate someone or an

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institution for this year's bent spoon

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Awards as the more nominations we get

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the more we have the choose from the

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better only two more episodes to go of

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the skeptic zone and it'll be

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shutter:500 whether I can face another

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500 shows or not after that we will see

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and at the moment organizing a special

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think tank of show 500 now longtime

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listeners to the show will well remember

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in the early days we had a regular

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segment called the think tank where we

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used to meet at the club at the end of

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the street hear all sorts of crazy bus

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announcements but would get together and

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just chat about sceptical topics of the

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day hopefully we can organize one of

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those for you for episode 500 and maybe

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a few other things but let's get through

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show 4-9-8 before that and well that

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means it's time for me to run downstairs

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Oh Henny is back hello hen do you want

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me to run downstairs and you want

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breakfast not very talkative today it's

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time for me to run downstairs making

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sure I don't trip over Henry

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who gets under you get underfoot don't

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you you wanna come up here now she's

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right by my feet at them up come here

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come here come on say hello to the

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skeptics and fans yeah I give that look

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a lot from Henrietta it's time for me to

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run downstairs and I'm going to have an

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old favorite I'm gonna have water

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crackers with a little bit of butter on

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those and topped with a bit of peanut

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butter very simple and a coffee no she's

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gone now well I do all that by hope you

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enjoy the skeptic zone

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[Music]

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and joining me now all the way from

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beautiful Hamilton Ontario Canada as he

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does from time to time it's Michael Cruz

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hello Michael hello Richard it's great

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to hear your voice again thank you it's

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been a while since you've been on the

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skipping zone now for our listeners and

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new listeners maybe can you give us a

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bit of background on yourself sure I

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think in the context of the skeptic zone

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I have a I'm the executive director of

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an organization called bad science watch

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this is a Canadian organization that's

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focused on good science and public

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policy we've been around for about mmm

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six years now since 2012 which seems

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like so long ago and we have worked on a

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various projects mostly focused on

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getting better regulations around

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natural health products and all sort of

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favorite kind of altmed whoo that that

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you like to talk on your show and we've

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been working on that for about six years

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we've been a bit dormant lately but

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that's been that's been most of my kind

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of science advocacy work I also work as

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a as a paramedic in the GTA

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that's way the Greater Toronto Area

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which is here Ontario and I'm currently

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pursuing my medical degree at McMaster

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University in Hamilton so life is you

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know a bit busy I was just about to say

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and do you have any spare time for

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anything at all well you know I also

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have my own podcast called the title

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block which sort of leverages my work on

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in theater for years before all that

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where I interview lighting design like

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like theater designers about their

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history and craft so you know every

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spare moment is taken up by things I

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enjoy doing so I think it's a pretty

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good life that's that's good to hear now

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the reason I decided to get in touch

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with you what we do we do catch up

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periodically maybe about once a year I

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noticed some pretty strange stories

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coming out of Canada in regards to our

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old favourite topic of homeopathy what's

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happening Michael oh my goodness

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things are so busy here so in British

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Columbia which is our Terrace era

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westernmost province

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the Pacific coast has a has story that's

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been brewing for the last of a month and

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a half there's a home yet there's a nap

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scuse me a naturopath NBC who posted on

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her blog her name is on Keys Zimmern

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Zimmerman she posted on her blog a post

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about a kid that had come to her office

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with these aggressive behaviors and

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instead of course referring to a child

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psychiatrist or you know social worker

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somebody who actually deals with this

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kind of behavior she instead decided to

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treat the child with something called

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life sinem which is a homeopathic remedy

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that is based on rabid dog saliva fine

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and this is the time where we say let's

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see are you making this up or is this

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really I know it always that always

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seems to be the base of the question we

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talk about homeopathy right now I'm

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absolutely not making this up

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we know that homeopathy has been created

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from things like the light from the moon

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of Jupiter and dangerous diseases like

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like rabies and measles but yeah this

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actually happened she reported to have

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treated the child's behavioral like

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aggression with this homeopathic remedy

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and surprise surprise he got better so

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who knows what really happened but this

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kind of set social media by storm here

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in Canada and what is really great

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actually is that in Canada we've had now

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we have a very kind of robust number of

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critics on Twitter certainly speaking to

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the press that have been coming out

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really and against this kind of

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practices and that has resulted in some

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remarkable results when it comes to

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local government and federal government

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here in Canada really that's encouraging

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to hear it is I'm actually very

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encouraged I know that when bad signs

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weren't started in 2012 we were I think

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one of the first kind of national

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organizations in fact I know we were the

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first national organization to start

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working in a very focused way on the

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regulatory environment for these kind of

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products and at least from a consumer

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protection point of view there of course

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you know lots of industry led groups

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that were lobbying for you know

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unrestricted kind of access to the

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market but what's happened over the last

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few years is that through other

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organizations like the office for

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science in society and McGill University

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of Montreal and specifically an academic

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from Alberta named Tim Caulfield who

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actually works in I think his area of

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study is actually the legal and policy

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areas of regulation they both along with

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many many like myriads sort of pro

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science individuals on twitter have

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really pushed back against what has been

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up until you know a few years ago kind

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of an unrelenting tide of BS coming from

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altmed and and these kind of alternative

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practitioners and the result of that is

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that it managed to build up a giant kind

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of wave of support for increased

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regulation and what happened was the BC

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Health Minister each province has their

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own health minister in Canada that's

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responsible for running the provincial

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health system which is paid for and and

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and managed provincially rather than

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federally more or less the same

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situation in Australia yeah she decided

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to complain to help Canada on behalf of

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the province and say why is this product

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able to be sold in Canada now as it

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turns out the Helios product that the

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home er the natural path excuse making

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I'm so confused my apologies the

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naturopath yeah and ICI was promoting

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was not licensed in Canada and Health

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Canada of course said well of course

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this products not licensed and like she

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shouldn't be selling it she in fact

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imported it more or less illegally from

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the UK it which is something I mean yes

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you reported that she imported illegally

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but it's really easy in Canada to import

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these things but the border services

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doesn't look for them and you know you

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can get in then you want off of Amazon

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or from the UK seller and really it's

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not gonna be caught she was giving this

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out obviously it's not licensed so

276
00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:00,070
Health Canada said ah we're going to

277
00:12:02,579 --> 00:12:01,450
we're going to come down and this

278
00:12:04,860 --> 00:12:02,589
product is not going to be available for

279
00:12:06,300 --> 00:12:04,870
sale in Canada well of course in fact it

280
00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:06,310
was written in a way that said that

281
00:12:09,449 --> 00:12:08,050
Health Canada has somehow pulled these

282
00:12:11,310 --> 00:12:09,459
products from the shelves well of course

283
00:12:13,829 --> 00:12:11,320
they're not allowed to be sold in Canada

284
00:12:16,650 --> 00:12:13,839
so you know people who are selling them

285
00:12:18,420 --> 00:12:16,660
are selling them illegally and I would

286
00:12:20,250 --> 00:12:18,430
imagine that if they're not licensed not

287
00:12:22,410 --> 00:12:20,260
a lot of people are selling it anyways

288
00:12:24,390 --> 00:12:22,420
so the very small victory but at least

289
00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:24,400
we got this story out there that these

290
00:12:28,650 --> 00:12:26,650
products are dangerous that no Saudis

291
00:12:30,510 --> 00:12:28,660
which of the homeopathic class that this

292
00:12:32,250 --> 00:12:30,520
drug company this preparation comes from

293
00:12:34,740 --> 00:12:32,260
I don't want to call it a drug it has no

294
00:12:37,380 --> 00:12:34,750
zero effect right yeah beyond placebo

295
00:12:40,680 --> 00:12:37,390
but the kind no so is that these these

296
00:12:42,810 --> 00:12:40,690
preparations belong to are in fact first

297
00:12:44,970 --> 00:12:42,820
of all have no benefit and represent

298
00:12:48,870 --> 00:12:44,980
some sort of risk I mean imagine like

299
00:12:50,700 --> 00:12:48,880
what the outcry from the absurdity of

300
00:12:53,010 --> 00:12:50,710
giving somebody rat like rabies

301
00:12:55,680 --> 00:12:53,020
basically to treat their aggression

302
00:12:58,440 --> 00:12:55,690
which which on the surface is obviously

303
00:13:02,250 --> 00:12:58,450
like a facile kind of some very

304
00:13:03,510 --> 00:13:02,260
simplistic blink has has resulted in

305
00:13:04,650 --> 00:13:03,520
people going oh of course this is absurd

306
00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:04,660
but people do this kind of absurd

307
00:13:08,940 --> 00:13:06,730
behavior all the time so at least that

308
00:13:10,590 --> 00:13:08,950
has opened up this discussion again the

309
00:13:12,750 --> 00:13:10,600
public space about how we how we

310
00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:12,760
regulate these kind of products and it's

311
00:13:16,890 --> 00:13:14,890
put greater pressure on Health Canada to

312
00:13:18,780 --> 00:13:16,900
change the regulation unfortunately

313
00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:18,790
there's a lot of other problems in that

314
00:13:22,700 --> 00:13:21,130
system that we're trying to address it

315
00:13:26,310 --> 00:13:22,710
struck me as you're talking about

316
00:13:28,680 --> 00:13:26,320
importing these these homeopathic

317
00:13:30,870 --> 00:13:28,690
preparations and then across my mind

318
00:13:33,450 --> 00:13:30,880
know they're smuggling them in it must

319
00:13:35,670 --> 00:13:33,460
be the world's easiest product to

320
00:13:38,370 --> 00:13:35,680
smuggle because no sniffer dog could

321
00:13:40,710 --> 00:13:38,380
ever find it it's indistinguishable from

322
00:13:42,660 --> 00:13:40,720
from sugar and water it'd be a

323
00:13:44,850 --> 00:13:42,670
Smuggler's dream wouldn't it yeah

324
00:13:46,470 --> 00:13:44,860
absolutely you're absolutely I mean I

325
00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:46,480
imagine just like everyone else we have

326
00:13:51,390 --> 00:13:48,850
a huge fentanyl crisis here in Canada a

327
00:13:54,060 --> 00:13:51,400
lot of it is being imported in very sort

328
00:13:55,410 --> 00:13:54,070
of high concentrations from China and

329
00:13:57,210 --> 00:13:55,420
they can ship that stuff over envelopes

330
00:13:58,980 --> 00:13:57,220
but this is just sugar right nobody's

331
00:14:00,810 --> 00:13:58,990
gonna pick it out and smuggling I mean

332
00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:00,820
when I think I'm smuggling I think of

333
00:14:05,310 --> 00:14:02,290
like the Millennium Falcon and like

334
00:14:06,930 --> 00:14:05,320
those you know those those pods that

335
00:14:08,250 --> 00:14:06,940
they hide in from the stormtroopers in

336
00:14:11,670 --> 00:14:08,260
that first movie like it sounds very

337
00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:11,680
nefarious no I mean this is just by nail

338
00:14:14,370 --> 00:14:13,210
right this is just like going online or

339
00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:14,380
ordering something and it gets shipped

340
00:14:19,380 --> 00:14:16,810
to you like it's not it's there's not a

341
00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:19,390
chain there's not a secret supply chain

342
00:14:22,470 --> 00:14:21,130
going in from the UK to get these things

343
00:14:24,720 --> 00:14:22,480
in here it's really rather easy all you

344
00:14:26,520 --> 00:14:24,730
have to do is just order them online and

345
00:14:28,860 --> 00:14:26,530
they arrive at your door oh you could

346
00:14:30,210 --> 00:14:28,870
get some vials of water and labeled them

347
00:14:32,130 --> 00:14:30,220
whatever you like and sell them to

348
00:14:33,860 --> 00:14:32,140
homeopath saying look I got this direct

349
00:14:36,410 --> 00:14:33,870
from the UK it's it's

350
00:14:39,619 --> 00:14:36,420
al who Torrance it's the light of the

351
00:14:41,239 --> 00:14:39,629
moon who is right yeah absolutely well

352
00:14:44,210 --> 00:14:41,249
it that brings up a good point to like

353
00:14:46,100 --> 00:14:44,220
the regulatory kind of environment here

354
00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:46,110
in Canada is such that the federal

355
00:14:50,749 --> 00:14:47,610
government regulates devices and

356
00:14:53,449 --> 00:14:50,759
preparations but it doesn't regulate the

357
00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:53,459
interaction between the health

358
00:14:57,829 --> 00:14:55,290
professional and I use that term in

359
00:14:59,509 --> 00:14:57,839
quotes and the and the and the patient

360
00:15:02,299 --> 00:14:59,519
that's a provincial matter and the

361
00:15:04,189 --> 00:15:02,309
province has nothing to do in fact these

362
00:15:06,230 --> 00:15:04,199
these in British Columbia and

363
00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:06,240
naturopaths are self regulated just like

364
00:15:11,030 --> 00:15:08,850
nurses and physicians and chiropractors

365
00:15:12,679 --> 00:15:11,040
and physiotherapists and all the other

366
00:15:14,420 --> 00:15:12,689
kind of independent practitioners and

367
00:15:15,829 --> 00:15:14,430
that's an arm's length organization the

368
00:15:18,049 --> 00:15:15,839
province really doesn't mess with that

369
00:15:19,970 --> 00:15:18,059
relationship unless something has gone

370
00:15:23,030 --> 00:15:19,980
seriously wrong that there's like some

371
00:15:26,059 --> 00:15:23,040
sort of serious misstep by the by the

372
00:15:27,410 --> 00:15:26,069
management by the College Board and that

373
00:15:28,489 --> 00:15:27,420
has happened from time to time but the

374
00:15:30,679 --> 00:15:28,499
problems really doesn't deal with it

375
00:15:35,150 --> 00:15:30,689
yeah this is a self regulatory issue and

376
00:15:37,309 --> 00:15:35,160
my understanding is that of course the

377
00:15:38,990 --> 00:15:37,319
BC naturopaths have come you know kind

378
00:15:40,369 --> 00:15:39,000
of double down on this a little bit and

379
00:15:42,730 --> 00:15:40,379
said well of course this is in our scope

380
00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:42,740
no no of course no one should be using

381
00:15:48,410 --> 00:15:46,050
unlicensed health products but you know

382
00:15:50,179 --> 00:15:48,420
they run a very fine like they're

383
00:15:52,610 --> 00:15:50,189
skating along the razor's edge right if

384
00:15:53,929 --> 00:15:52,620
you're a physician and this I think most

385
00:15:56,090 --> 00:15:53,939
jurisdictions will have this kind of

386
00:15:57,470 --> 00:15:56,100
ethical language in their in their

387
00:15:59,030 --> 00:15:57,480
policies and procedures that if you're a

388
00:16:01,579 --> 00:15:59,040
physician you can't run a formulary out

389
00:16:04,189 --> 00:16:01,589
of your office for obvious reasons right

390
00:16:06,259 --> 00:16:04,199
I don't want to incentivize just writing

391
00:16:08,179 --> 00:16:06,269
scripts so you can you know charge

392
00:16:09,559 --> 00:16:08,189
somebody and make a profit off of the

393
00:16:13,129 --> 00:16:09,569
scripts that you're writing that's an

394
00:16:15,829 --> 00:16:13,139
obvious conflict of interest in Canada

395
00:16:16,970 --> 00:16:15,839
in Ontario NBC my understanding is that

396
00:16:19,699 --> 00:16:16,980
these regulations these ethical

397
00:16:22,100 --> 00:16:19,709
regulations don't exist that it's it's

398
00:16:24,490 --> 00:16:22,110
in fact common practice for natural

399
00:16:27,559 --> 00:16:24,500
paths and homeopaths and in

400
00:16:30,530 --> 00:16:27,569
chiropractors as well to sell products

401
00:16:32,689 --> 00:16:30,540
out of their office and so they can go

402
00:16:34,939 --> 00:16:32,699
oh well you've got you've got a cold

403
00:16:36,290 --> 00:16:34,949
here I've got some influenza them for

404
00:16:37,699 --> 00:16:36,300
you and I just haven't had it on the

405
00:16:39,049 --> 00:16:37,709
shelf and they charge you for it and

406
00:16:40,939 --> 00:16:39,059
that kind of relationship that kind of

407
00:16:44,150 --> 00:16:40,949
commercial relationship is not is is not

408
00:16:47,150 --> 00:16:44,160
frowned upon which seems a huge gap like

409
00:16:47,790 --> 00:16:47,160
why are why do physicians you know hold

410
00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:47,800
themselves to this

411
00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:50,050
standard you know and and that's a good

412
00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:51,610
thing and and if a physician try to run

413
00:16:54,780 --> 00:16:52,690
a formulary out of their office you

414
00:16:57,389 --> 00:16:54,790
could imagine the outcry from the from

415
00:16:59,370 --> 00:16:57,399
the old net community right but it's a

416
00:17:01,500 --> 00:16:59,380
common practice for natural paths to

417
00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:01,510
have formularies run out of their

418
00:17:07,410 --> 00:17:03,490
offices and they're making scads of

419
00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:07,420
money I've seen it here not that I

420
00:17:12,900 --> 00:17:09,970
visited many naturopath so people like

421
00:17:14,910 --> 00:17:12,910
this although when I do see them is that

422
00:17:16,470 --> 00:17:14,920
the old famous and listeners know the

423
00:17:18,390 --> 00:17:16,480
term very well mind-body wallet

424
00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:18,400
festivals or in reality they're called

425
00:17:23,819 --> 00:17:21,730
mind/body/spirit and you go to a big

426
00:17:26,429 --> 00:17:23,829
room with mrs. twice a year in Sydney

427
00:17:28,079 --> 00:17:26,439
with all sorts of woo practitioners and

428
00:17:31,830 --> 00:17:28,089
magic and dancing and lots of things but

429
00:17:34,530 --> 00:17:31,840
all the naturopaths who go along or the

430
00:17:36,810 --> 00:17:34,540
homeopaths always can diagnose you on

431
00:17:38,040 --> 00:17:36,820
the spot and sell you the cure right

432
00:17:41,340 --> 00:17:38,050
behind them on the shelf

433
00:17:44,330 --> 00:17:41,350
I know it's remarkable a God to have

434
00:17:46,710 --> 00:17:44,340
that kind of power you have that guy am

435
00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:46,720
I'm training as a physician right now

436
00:17:51,570 --> 00:17:48,850
and I tell ya I I'm only about eight

437
00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:51,580
months in and I feel like I will never

438
00:17:57,120 --> 00:17:54,610
have that power it's just an unrealistic

439
00:17:58,470 --> 00:17:57,130
expectation right so it really is but if

440
00:17:59,790 --> 00:17:58,480
your training is a physician that's a

441
00:18:01,380 --> 00:17:59,800
good thing to know because next time in

442
00:18:04,290 --> 00:18:01,390
Canada I'll just see you about this rash

443
00:18:05,820 --> 00:18:04,300
on my arm if that's all right yes I know

444
00:18:08,760 --> 00:18:05,830
the line is for me outside my door I

445
00:18:13,470 --> 00:18:08,770
have this weird spot I have no idea what

446
00:18:14,790 --> 00:18:13,480
that spot is you know it's big you

447
00:18:17,340 --> 00:18:14,800
talking to your doctor if I can just

448
00:18:19,409 --> 00:18:17,350
interrupt yeah you you bring up another

449
00:18:23,250 --> 00:18:19,419
topic or in my mind as we were chatting

450
00:18:24,840 --> 00:18:23,260
now in Australia when drugs are

451
00:18:26,940 --> 00:18:24,850
advertised on the radio or the

452
00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:26,950
television for example if it's a

453
00:18:32,310 --> 00:18:29,050
headache tablet a common headache tablet

454
00:18:34,370 --> 00:18:32,320
now I'll have the advertisement for the

455
00:18:37,230 --> 00:18:34,380
headache tablet and at the end there's a

456
00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:37,240
regular disclaimer I will not when I was

457
00:18:42,540 --> 00:18:39,610
growing up the disclaimer was if

458
00:18:47,159 --> 00:18:42,550
symptoms persist see your doctor or

459
00:18:50,010 --> 00:18:47,169
pharmacist sometime in the last ten or

460
00:18:53,130 --> 00:18:50,020
so years that has changed too if

461
00:18:57,000 --> 00:18:53,140
symptoms persist see your health care

462
00:18:59,790 --> 00:18:57,010
professional and I it struck me a long

463
00:19:01,620 --> 00:18:59,800
time ago that this is really bad advice

464
00:19:03,450 --> 00:19:01,630
because if if your health

465
00:19:05,700 --> 00:19:03,460
care professional happens to be a

466
00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:05,710
homeopath you're not doing yourself any

467
00:19:09,260 --> 00:19:07,330
services at all is there something

468
00:19:12,360 --> 00:19:09,270
similar happens in Canada do you know

469
00:19:14,810 --> 00:19:12,370
you know we don't in Canada specifically

470
00:19:16,950 --> 00:19:14,820
on the u.s. obviously we get a lot of

471
00:19:19,169 --> 00:19:16,960
broadcast from the US across the border

472
00:19:21,029 --> 00:19:19,179
so we get a lot of us content like that

473
00:19:22,820 --> 00:19:21,039
but in Canada my understanding is you

474
00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:22,830
still can't you can't sell

475
00:19:29,010 --> 00:19:26,530
pharmaceuticals on on public Airways yet

476
00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:29,020
but what is happening up here is a

477
00:19:34,820 --> 00:19:32,410
movement to promote naturopaths and

478
00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:34,830
chiropractors as primary care yeah

479
00:19:40,140 --> 00:19:38,530
doctors Wow and in the same way and in

480
00:19:42,630 --> 00:19:40,150
fact there was just a tweet last week BC

481
00:19:45,090 --> 00:19:42,640
I think it was a BC natural paths or

482
00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:45,100
somebody from that community was again

483
00:19:47,789 --> 00:19:46,450
promoting this idea that you're not to

484
00:19:49,500 --> 00:19:47,799
path is your primary care provider so

485
00:19:53,250 --> 00:19:49,510
the only person you would see is your

486
00:19:56,490 --> 00:19:53,260
natural path not a physician or you know

487
00:19:58,080 --> 00:19:56,500
a nurse practitioner which is a special

488
00:20:00,539 --> 00:19:58,090
kind of advanced practice nurse we have

489
00:20:03,299 --> 00:20:00,549
here in Canada who are you know

490
00:20:06,630 --> 00:20:03,309
obviously skilled at diagnosing and and

491
00:20:08,340 --> 00:20:06,640
you know license to treat to write

492
00:20:09,539 --> 00:20:08,350
prescriptions and to refer and to you

493
00:20:10,919 --> 00:20:09,549
know order tests and everything else and

494
00:20:11,820 --> 00:20:10,929
that is what the natural paths are

495
00:20:14,250 --> 00:20:11,830
trying to do they're trying to be able

496
00:20:17,659 --> 00:20:14,260
to order tests actually the BC natural

497
00:20:21,360 --> 00:20:17,669
paths just got the power to prescribe

498
00:20:22,950 --> 00:20:21,370
pharmaceuticals it yeah in a certain is

499
00:20:26,399 --> 00:20:22,960
a certain there's a few it's a limited

500
00:20:28,919 --> 00:20:26,409
number of them but stuff for like

501
00:20:30,510 --> 00:20:28,929
chronic pain camera the entire list and

502
00:20:33,299 --> 00:20:30,520
may include antibiotics which is a big

503
00:20:34,380 --> 00:20:33,309
mistake and and because of that kind of

504
00:20:37,409 --> 00:20:34,390
prescribing

505
00:20:39,360 --> 00:20:37,419
push they want to promote themselves as

506
00:20:41,549 --> 00:20:39,370
practitioners and of course they could

507
00:20:42,630 --> 00:20:41,559
you know you can imagine the kind of

508
00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:42,640
pharmaceutical training you get in

509
00:20:46,409 --> 00:20:44,650
naturopathy college right like if you're

510
00:20:49,049 --> 00:20:46,419
learning homeopathy then your

511
00:20:50,310 --> 00:20:49,059
pharmacokinetics and dynamics and you

512
00:20:52,710 --> 00:20:50,320
know drug side effects everything else

513
00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:52,720
that training is probably probably not

514
00:20:56,430 --> 00:20:54,490
as good as it would be elsewhere well

515
00:20:58,260 --> 00:20:56,440
it's a nap term it's homeopathic

516
00:21:00,299 --> 00:20:58,270
training and if you think about it it's

517
00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:00,309
true it's the training which is being

518
00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:03,250
diluted down to homeopathic levels yes

519
00:21:08,039 --> 00:21:06,250
absolutely and it's also remarkable like

520
00:21:10,350 --> 00:21:08,049
it's really interesting for I'm like now

521
00:21:13,230 --> 00:21:10,360
that I'm training as a physician that

522
00:21:15,030 --> 00:21:13,240
the the power that you have when you're

523
00:21:17,370 --> 00:21:15,040
writing a prescription I mean it's

524
00:21:19,710 --> 00:21:17,380
like an everyday regular thing when

525
00:21:22,170 --> 00:21:19,720
you're not responsible for it but like I

526
00:21:23,130 --> 00:21:22,180
don't feel obviously I don't feel

527
00:21:24,450 --> 00:21:23,140
prepared right now to write

528
00:21:26,580 --> 00:21:24,460
prescriptions and I and I give people

529
00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:26,590
medications that work as a paramedic all

530
00:21:30,900 --> 00:21:28,290
the time right as part of my directives

531
00:21:32,580 --> 00:21:30,910
the responsibility that you hold when

532
00:21:35,220 --> 00:21:32,590
you write down you know take two things

533
00:21:37,790 --> 00:21:35,230
twice a day at this dosage call me for

534
00:21:41,220 --> 00:21:37,800
side-effects that that kind of power is

535
00:21:44,100 --> 00:21:41,230
has so requires so much training to do

536
00:21:46,620 --> 00:21:44,110
and thinking about the entire I mean we

537
00:21:49,050 --> 00:21:46,630
talk about holistic you know body like

538
00:21:50,790 --> 00:21:49,060
holistic medicine like the medicine is

539
00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:50,800
practiced by your physician is holistic

540
00:21:54,210 --> 00:21:51,850
medicine the things that you have to

541
00:21:56,430 --> 00:21:54,220
keep in mind about reacting with other

542
00:21:58,260 --> 00:21:56,440
medications exacerbating conditions you

543
00:22:01,110 --> 00:21:58,270
already have you know the cost of the

544
00:22:02,730 --> 00:22:01,120
drug the side effects the dosage and

545
00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:02,740
that's how it moves through the body all

546
00:22:06,330 --> 00:22:04,450
of those things that's that's holistic

547
00:22:07,620 --> 00:22:06,340
thinking and to think that you could

548
00:22:10,230 --> 00:22:07,630
just take a tener of course and now

549
00:22:12,060 --> 00:22:10,240
prescribe all these kind of these you

550
00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:12,070
know these these pharmaceuticals it's a

551
00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:14,410
bit of a it's a bit of a fantasy no it's

552
00:22:19,110 --> 00:22:17,050
a mantra from the naturopath Suzanne and

553
00:22:20,670 --> 00:22:19,120
we treat the whole body we're holistic

554
00:22:23,790 --> 00:22:20,680
we you know we look at the person as a

555
00:22:25,740 --> 00:22:23,800
whole it's it's like something they read

556
00:22:28,950 --> 00:22:25,750
on day one of their course and they just

557
00:22:30,750 --> 00:22:28,960
repeat it again and again and and you

558
00:22:33,060 --> 00:22:30,760
make a very good point it's it's the

559
00:22:35,340 --> 00:22:33,070
real doctors out there the real health

560
00:22:39,060 --> 00:22:35,350
care professionals dare I say that do

561
00:22:41,190 --> 00:22:39,070
treat the patient holistically mmm-hmm

562
00:22:43,740 --> 00:22:41,200
yeah it's quite frustrating in these

563
00:22:46,410 --> 00:22:43,750
days I hope that like as I said I'm

564
00:22:49,350 --> 00:22:46,420
getting a bit optimistic I've been sort

565
00:22:51,390 --> 00:22:49,360
of diving into you know medical Twitter

566
00:22:53,970 --> 00:22:51,400
following all the you know all the

567
00:22:55,590 --> 00:22:53,980
people I want to model my behavior after

568
00:22:58,280 --> 00:22:55,600
and and those I want to keep tabs on as

569
00:23:01,080 --> 00:22:58,290
well I think that there is finally a

570
00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:01,090
realization and I think that social

571
00:23:06,030 --> 00:23:02,770
media has driven this because people

572
00:23:08,940 --> 00:23:06,040
have seen the power of to spread bad

573
00:23:10,830 --> 00:23:08,950
ideas through social media and I think

574
00:23:12,210 --> 00:23:10,840
physicians and other researchers and

575
00:23:14,370 --> 00:23:12,220
academics like people like Tim Caulfield

576
00:23:16,650 --> 00:23:14,380
and notable kind of Twitter physicians

577
00:23:18,450 --> 00:23:16,660
here in Canada in the US and around the

578
00:23:21,930 --> 00:23:18,460
globe that I've realised that we have to

579
00:23:24,870 --> 00:23:21,940
push back in a organized strong way to

580
00:23:27,420 --> 00:23:24,880
sort of make sure that for example just

581
00:23:29,009 --> 00:23:27,430
announced yesterday apparently brings

582
00:23:31,110 --> 00:23:29,019
people like dr. oz

583
00:23:34,710 --> 00:23:31,120
into positions of power in the US uh

584
00:23:36,389 --> 00:23:34,720
yeah yes yes I I think it's a it's an

585
00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:36,399
April is that April the first today oh

586
00:23:41,820 --> 00:23:39,490
no it's not home dear yeah no right like

587
00:23:43,830 --> 00:23:41,830
this is not something we can sit idly by

588
00:23:45,360 --> 00:23:43,840
and and just go shrug our shoulders and

589
00:23:48,029 --> 00:23:45,370
go oh you know what I'm gonna I'm gonna

590
00:23:50,789 --> 00:23:48,039
keep my part of the sandbox clean and

591
00:23:52,619 --> 00:23:50,799
orderly and and organized and not worry

592
00:23:53,700 --> 00:23:52,629
about what's going on over there because

593
00:23:55,649 --> 00:23:53,710
what's going over there affects

594
00:23:57,299 --> 00:23:55,659
everybody and we've seen the rates of

595
00:23:58,860 --> 00:23:57,309
falling vaccinations in some communities

596
00:24:00,539 --> 00:23:58,870
we've seen the anti-vaccine by

597
00:24:01,919 --> 00:24:00,549
chiropractors in Canada this is

598
00:24:04,460 --> 00:24:01,929
something I'm very optimistic about

599
00:24:07,769 --> 00:24:04,470
there was the Vice the vice chair of the

600
00:24:09,810 --> 00:24:07,779
BC Chiropractic College the regulatory

601
00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:09,820
body that regulates chiropractors NBC

602
00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:11,850
just had to step was forced to step down

603
00:24:17,789 --> 00:24:15,850
because even after ruling by the college

604
00:24:19,859 --> 00:24:17,799
that says chiropractors should not be

605
00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:19,869
talking about vaccines it's not within

606
00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:22,210
their scope of practice and any anti

607
00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:25,450
vaccine video or promotional material on

608
00:24:29,669 --> 00:24:27,730
your Facebook page is against the policy

609
00:24:32,460 --> 00:24:29,679
of the of the college even after that

610
00:24:36,659 --> 00:24:32,470
point out the vice chair by from that

611
00:24:39,180 --> 00:24:36,669
College had posted an anti vaccine video

612
00:24:41,399 --> 00:24:39,190
and was promoting it and so they were

613
00:24:43,139 --> 00:24:41,409
forced to step down I think that you

614
00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:43,149
know the the chiropractic in Canada is a

615
00:24:47,039 --> 00:24:45,490
funny thing it's had a lot of success of

616
00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:47,049
legitimizing and mainstreaming it

617
00:24:50,879 --> 00:24:49,090
because they've been trying to to dampen

618
00:24:53,430 --> 00:24:50,889
that kind of crazy side of chiropractic

619
00:24:56,909 --> 00:24:53,440
where people across certified as natural

620
00:24:58,799 --> 00:24:56,919
paths of homeopaths and now we're seeing

621
00:25:00,989 --> 00:24:58,809
through social media and through good

622
00:25:02,940 --> 00:25:00,999
investigative journalism that in fact

623
00:25:05,190 --> 00:25:02,950
chiropractors make a lot of crazy claims

624
00:25:07,109 --> 00:25:05,200
in Canada and we have to if you want to

625
00:25:09,419 --> 00:25:07,119
practice and you know crack someone's

626
00:25:11,940 --> 00:25:09,429
back it's a difficult thing now because

627
00:25:14,789 --> 00:25:11,950
it's so embedded to argue that the

628
00:25:18,299 --> 00:25:14,799
subluxation subluxation theory is wrong

629
00:25:19,919 --> 00:25:18,309
and and an unsupportable but we can

630
00:25:21,869 --> 00:25:19,929
point to chiropractors and say okay fine

631
00:25:23,759 --> 00:25:21,879
you know what you do what you do but

632
00:25:26,279 --> 00:25:23,769
don't you go near vaccines think that if

633
00:25:28,230 --> 00:25:26,289
we draw that line it's going to make a

634
00:25:28,710 --> 00:25:28,240
real difference in people's and people's

635
00:25:31,109 --> 00:25:28,720
health

636
00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:31,119
Michael cruise and one day you don't

637
00:25:36,330 --> 00:25:33,369
have much spare time look all the best

638
00:25:38,039 --> 00:25:36,340
in your studies to be a physician III

639
00:25:39,509 --> 00:25:38,049
think you're really wasting your time

640
00:25:41,460 --> 00:25:39,519
you could just go down the street and be

641
00:25:43,020 --> 00:25:41,470
a naturopath in fact in here

642
00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:43,030
you don't even have to do a course I

643
00:25:46,890 --> 00:25:44,770
think you can just hang up and notice

644
00:25:48,659 --> 00:25:46,900
outside your door and say Fred Bloggs

645
00:25:51,690 --> 00:25:48,669
the naturopath and away you go

646
00:25:53,370 --> 00:25:51,700
but anyway keep doing the right thing if

647
00:25:57,330 --> 00:25:53,380
people want more information does the

648
00:26:00,360 --> 00:25:57,340
bad science web site still take over it

649
00:26:01,980 --> 00:26:00,370
does if you go to bad science watch CA

650
00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:01,990
you'll find information we haven't

651
00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:04,090
updated it recently again I've been very

652
00:26:08,909 --> 00:26:07,090
busy but keep watching that site because

653
00:26:10,049 --> 00:26:08,919
in a few in a few weeks or months we're

654
00:26:11,370 --> 00:26:10,059
going to be having more information

655
00:26:13,830 --> 00:26:11,380
about some other projects you've been

656
00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:13,840
doing and you can always you know is

657
00:26:17,580 --> 00:26:15,610
connected with us they're excellent

658
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:17,590
there's the clue folks I'll put a link

659
00:26:21,450 --> 00:26:18,970
to the show notes and especially

660
00:26:23,010 --> 00:26:21,460
especially if you're in Canada you might

661
00:26:24,659 --> 00:26:23,020
want to check that out but Michael

662
00:26:26,279 --> 00:26:24,669
cruise once again all the way from

663
00:26:29,340 --> 00:26:26,289
Hamilton Ontario and I'll definitely

664
00:26:32,310 --> 00:26:29,350
visit that to talk to you about the rash

665
00:26:50,789 --> 00:26:32,320
on my arm thank you very much thanks

666
00:26:52,950 --> 00:26:50,799
very great to talk to you again tickets

667
00:26:54,899 --> 00:26:52,960
for the 2018 Australian skeptics

668
00:26:56,700 --> 00:26:54,909
National Convention to be held in Sydney

669
00:26:59,370 --> 00:26:56,710
on the weekend of October the 13th

670
00:27:00,750 --> 00:26:59,380
through the 14th are now available this

671
00:27:02,820 --> 00:27:00,760
year the convention returns to the

672
00:27:04,470 --> 00:27:02,830
concourse Chatswood in Sydney's northern

673
00:27:06,779 --> 00:27:04,480
suburbs close to transport in the

674
00:27:10,230 --> 00:27:06,789
commutation as well as a huge number and

675
00:27:12,690 --> 00:27:10,240
variety of food outlets 1/7 maybe even 8

676
00:27:15,500 --> 00:27:12,700
the lineup of speakers covers medicine

677
00:27:18,210 --> 00:27:15,510
astronomy education belief systems

678
00:27:19,950 --> 00:27:18,220
linguistics and classical skeptical

679
00:27:21,750 --> 00:27:19,960
topics not to mention some of the best

680
00:27:24,990 --> 00:27:21,760
local and international podcasters and

681
00:27:27,270 --> 00:27:25,000
science communicators for starters is

682
00:27:30,330 --> 00:27:27,280
national podcasters include Kerry poppy

683
00:27:32,490 --> 00:27:30,340
from oh no Ross and Carrie Sawbones dr.

684
00:27:34,590 --> 00:27:32,500
Sydney and Justin McElroy and from

685
00:27:37,350 --> 00:27:34,600
skeptic to decay dr. Alice whole earth

686
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:37,360
will be there others include dr. Susan

687
00:27:40,649 --> 00:27:38,890
black ball one of the world's leading

688
00:27:43,710 --> 00:27:40,659
researchers into consciousness and

689
00:27:46,289 --> 00:27:43,720
out-of-body experiences I think hang on

690
00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:46,299
right now astronomers dr. Pamela gay and

691
00:27:51,389 --> 00:27:48,850
Alan Duffy in a fireside chat the one

692
00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:51,399
and only dr. Carl dr. Susan Knight

693
00:27:54,230 --> 00:27:52,530
leading campaign of

694
00:27:56,540 --> 00:27:54,240
teaching ethics and reasoning in schools

695
00:27:59,480 --> 00:27:56,550
and we go use more of that as well as

696
00:28:01,160 --> 00:27:59,490
magician adoptive young Sharma that also

697
00:28:03,710 --> 00:28:01,170
be panels on medicine on the internet

698
00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:03,720
and classic skeptical topics and many

699
00:28:08,180 --> 00:28:06,330
more convention tickets available for

700
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:08,190
the two days including concession

701
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:10,170
tickets and one-day tickets for either

702
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:12,810
Saturday or Sunday a first for skeptics

703
00:28:16,610 --> 00:28:14,970
conventional V an on-site crash for a

704
00:28:17,930 --> 00:28:16,620
minimal fee parents will be able to drop

705
00:28:19,250 --> 00:28:17,940
off their little ease and enjoy the

706
00:28:23,650 --> 00:28:19,260
convention while their children are

707
00:28:27,770 --> 00:28:25,970
there'll be a gala dinner on Saturday

708
00:28:29,510 --> 00:28:27,780
October 13th with food drinks

709
00:28:32,360 --> 00:28:29,520
entertainment Skeptical Awards

710
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:32,370
conviviality and fun or fun and

711
00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:34,530
conviviality we'll have both this will

712
00:28:39,290 --> 00:28:36,810
take place at the Civic Berlin adjacent

713
00:28:41,030 --> 00:28:39,300
to the convention venue there is ample

714
00:28:42,620 --> 00:28:41,040
accommodation in the Chatswood area for

715
00:28:44,750 --> 00:28:42,630
regional interstate and overseas

716
00:28:46,790 --> 00:28:44,760
visitors and a variety of standards and

717
00:28:49,430 --> 00:28:46,800
prices you can even stay at my place and

718
00:28:50,810 --> 00:28:49,440
the round off the fun and welcome social

719
00:28:53,570 --> 00:28:50,820
evening will be held on Friday October

720
00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:53,580
the 12th at the Occidental hotel York

721
00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:54,690
Street in the city

722
00:28:58,850 --> 00:28:56,370
the usual Sydney skeptics in the pub

723
00:29:01,220 --> 00:28:58,860
location this will be on two floors from

724
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:01,230
6:00 p.m. one for for drinks and chat

725
00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:03,330
the other one for meals arm wrestling's

726
00:29:07,430 --> 00:29:05,610
and competitions it truly will be a

727
00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:07,440
festival exploring science reason

728
00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:09,090
critical thinking and the other thing

729
00:29:14,180 --> 00:29:12,050
fun and don't forget the conviviality

730
00:29:16,700 --> 00:29:14,190
for more information to book your

731
00:29:19,910 --> 00:29:16,710
tickets visit convention skeptics

732
00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:19,920
kaamdar you see you there and be

733
00:29:40,850 --> 00:29:34,250
convivial here's main art spooky action

734
00:29:45,590 --> 00:29:43,669
well listeners here we are I'm directly

735
00:29:48,620 --> 00:29:45,600
opposite the Occidental hotel where I'm

736
00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:48,630
going for the amazing skeptics in the

737
00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:51,330
pub it's a huge night I think that we

738
00:29:56,389 --> 00:29:53,970
owe 10 a West will be here and a whole

739
00:29:59,670 --> 00:29:56,399
bunch of people with false bums it'll be

740
00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:02,539
oh yeah

741
00:30:08,580 --> 00:30:05,190
so in climbing the stairs now so we go

742
00:30:13,130 --> 00:30:08,590
through the people in the money money

743
00:30:16,740 --> 00:30:13,140
money business and we go up two levels

744
00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:16,750
to a skeptics in the puppies every

745
00:30:20,890 --> 00:30:32,870
just listen to the Habad as I walk in

746
00:30:36,690 --> 00:30:35,700
now we've got some heavy-duty stuff I'm

747
00:30:38,940 --> 00:30:36,700
good worried that it's gonna be very

748
00:30:40,620 --> 00:30:38,950
hardcore tonight people we like going

749
00:30:42,930 --> 00:30:40,630
what do you say yeah physics actually

750
00:30:45,750 --> 00:30:42,940
you know I get lost just trying to spell

751
00:30:47,670 --> 00:30:45,760
it understand it yeah what did you do at

752
00:30:50,370 --> 00:30:47,680
uni when you at the pub there Forest

753
00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:50,380
Lawn and I was actually mainly at the

754
00:30:53,820 --> 00:30:52,450
movies and they went to the forest lodge

755
00:30:54,450 --> 00:30:53,830
pub for lunch and then back to the

756
00:30:56,490 --> 00:30:54,460
movies again

757
00:30:58,770 --> 00:30:56,500
now I'm if I actually want to talk to

758
00:31:01,170 --> 00:30:58,780
our man who's gonna be doing the Ian

759
00:31:02,730 --> 00:31:01,180
he's the guy who knows all that physics

760
00:31:04,170 --> 00:31:02,740
is the most physics person in the whole

761
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:04,180
sceptics in Sydney he's extremely

762
00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:06,010
physical yes yeah he's he's the one

763
00:31:11,190 --> 00:31:09,130
actually yeah he knows about quantum

764
00:31:13,260 --> 00:31:11,200
theory and stuff are there you know

765
00:31:21,060 --> 00:31:13,270
about quantum theory too I hope you drop

766
00:31:22,410 --> 00:31:21,070
a few words here in there oh segment is

767
00:31:25,310 --> 00:31:22,420
actually but that's a time Steiner

768
00:31:27,660 --> 00:31:25,320
that's correct yes it was a

769
00:31:31,050 --> 00:31:27,670
interpolation or when the one goes to

770
00:31:32,670 --> 00:31:31,060
the other one no I guess and yeah oh

771
00:31:34,170 --> 00:31:32,680
it's spooky action a distance now am i

772
00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:34,180
interviewing you or you any being made

773
00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:36,250
well he's your chance to go like I'm a

774
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:37,690
nerd that what's your favorite movie

775
00:31:44,100 --> 00:31:41,410
well when I was with the a MP I told

776
00:31:47,370 --> 00:31:44,110
them don't do that and oh the movie oh

777
00:31:50,310 --> 00:31:47,380
yes um well look I don't know if it is a

778
00:31:52,350 --> 00:31:50,320
bit of a signifier for it goes on a and

779
00:31:55,830 --> 00:31:52,360
P but they did watch a Clockwork Orange

780
00:31:57,600 --> 00:31:55,840
a lot there almost every lunchtime so we

781
00:31:58,950 --> 00:31:57,610
assumed to have that encountered movies

782
00:31:59,370 --> 00:31:58,960
I'm looking at movies with those guys

783
00:32:05,820 --> 00:31:59,380
okay

784
00:32:09,420 --> 00:32:05,830
now

785
00:32:12,900 --> 00:32:09,430
Oh your uncle he was the Pan Am woman

786
00:32:14,910 --> 00:32:12,910
with the thing yeah no okay sorry which

787
00:32:16,950 --> 00:32:14,920
one was your uncle he was dressed as a

788
00:32:19,260 --> 00:32:16,960
ape or a chimp or something at the

789
00:32:21,300 --> 00:32:19,270
beginning playing with the big cats I'm

790
00:32:22,410 --> 00:32:21,310
gonna confess I haven't even seen it but

791
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:22,420
I really feel like I should watch this

792
00:32:25,050 --> 00:32:23,770
but I've got not he's the one that

793
00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:25,060
smashed the bone threw it in the air

794
00:32:28,530 --> 00:32:27,130
possibly but I just I haven't seen it

795
00:32:30,180 --> 00:32:28,540
but they were his big cats he was a

796
00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:30,190
circus guy so they needed somebody that

797
00:32:35,370 --> 00:32:32,050
could be attacked by Pan

798
00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:35,380
Pumas or something his big cats and he

799
00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:36,490
was the one who dressed up as an ape

800
00:32:42,300 --> 00:32:40,450
play fighting with them he never saw you

801
00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:42,310
but it's a big presentation tonight I

802
00:32:48,270 --> 00:32:43,930
know that's a sixth time I've given my

803
00:32:49,770 --> 00:32:48,280
talk on walking so what is your favorite

804
00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:49,780
movie by the way we were just talking

805
00:32:54,030 --> 00:32:51,370
about movies what's your favorite movie

806
00:32:59,520 --> 00:32:54,040
in how I liked lion I went about the

807
00:33:01,590 --> 00:32:59,530
misplaced Indian migrant and I must

808
00:33:04,140 --> 00:33:01,600
point out people that ian has actually

809
00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:04,150
taken on the the Muslim society at the

810
00:33:10,230 --> 00:33:07,090
University of Sydney and 10 points for

811
00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:10,240
that sir yes indeed I've debated quite a

812
00:33:14,550 --> 00:33:12,370
few religious organisations the last one

813
00:33:18,060 --> 00:33:14,560
was interesting that was with a group of

814
00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:18,070
evangelical students at UTS and they got

815
00:33:21,930 --> 00:33:19,690
along as the speaker and astrophysicist

816
00:33:28,350 --> 00:33:21,940
who believes in God say well that is

817
00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:28,360
possible Stephen Hawking some position

818
00:33:33,510 --> 00:33:31,690
on God did he was he an agnostic or was

819
00:33:35,940 --> 00:33:33,520
he completely a theist what was his very

820
00:33:38,070 --> 00:33:35,950
vocal atheist dog in fact that was one

821
00:33:40,500 --> 00:33:38,080
of the reasons of stress in his first

822
00:33:42,780 --> 00:33:40,510
marriage as we were here tonight really

823
00:33:44,700 --> 00:33:42,790
his wife was a devout Christian and she

824
00:33:48,330 --> 00:33:44,710
kept saying to him how many tough years

825
00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:48,340
she said things like Stephen I wish I

826
00:33:51,090 --> 00:33:49,810
wish you wouldn't pretend there's no

827
00:33:54,780 --> 00:33:51,100
other source of knowledge other than

828
00:33:57,670 --> 00:33:54,790
science he said okay well night one

829
00:33:59,830 --> 00:33:57,680
so so as I've been rumors about him

830
00:34:02,500 --> 00:33:59,840
doing a deathbed confession and turning

831
00:34:04,150 --> 00:34:02,510
into a Christian at all has that come up

832
00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:04,160
quite the contrary when one of his

833
00:34:10,510 --> 00:34:08,570
sayings was that was about heaven he

834
00:34:12,909 --> 00:34:10,520
said we know that the mind is very much

835
00:34:15,129 --> 00:34:12,919
like a computer and we know that there's

836
00:34:17,740 --> 00:34:15,139
no place that broken-down computers go

837
00:34:20,260 --> 00:34:17,750
after they expire so similarly there's

838
00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:20,270
no place for breaking down Minds go

839
00:34:24,220 --> 00:34:22,850
after they expire dens good so you're

840
00:34:25,419 --> 00:34:24,230
pretty this is just like a regular

841
00:34:26,950 --> 00:34:25,429
Thursday night for you really because

842
00:34:29,110 --> 00:34:26,960
you've done this talk so many times over

843
00:34:31,450 --> 00:34:29,120
new indeed yes have you had actually had

844
00:34:32,770 --> 00:34:31,460
a wacky question that's been thrown to

845
00:34:35,260 --> 00:34:32,780
you in all the years of doing it

846
00:34:36,580 --> 00:34:35,270
yes I've I've often had physicists in

847
00:34:37,290 --> 00:34:36,590
the audience in fact there's some here

848
00:34:39,940 --> 00:34:37,300
tonight

849
00:34:49,180 --> 00:34:39,950
so they check up on home it mean usually

850
00:35:16,960 --> 00:34:49,190
they let me know afterwards I can and

851
00:35:25,810 --> 00:35:16,970
I'm not going to free vaccinations day

852
00:35:31,130 --> 00:35:29,780
yes the fluid back saying when I believe

853
00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:31,140
there are other other nine tastes

854
00:35:34,850 --> 00:35:33,210
there's a sharp straights the tip to the

855
00:35:37,790 --> 00:35:34,860
anti-vaccination plus it's good together

856
00:35:38,930 --> 00:35:37,800
for the next thing anyway so if you have

857
00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:38,940
a look at the website the skeptics

858
00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:41,370
website skeptics condo they use there's

859
00:35:44,930 --> 00:35:42,930
a news items there you can follow it to

860
00:35:47,420 --> 00:35:44,940
register if you want to do there will be

861
00:35:49,820 --> 00:35:47,430
in the acing the doctor's clinic which

862
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:49,830
is in Darlinghurst to be stuck by the

863
00:35:55,730 --> 00:35:52,290
famous celebrity doctor Brett McCarthy

864
00:35:57,320 --> 00:35:55,740
so if you want to be injectors brothers

865
00:35:57,860 --> 00:35:57,330
a celebrity and you can come along with

866
00:36:01,940 --> 00:35:57,870
that

867
00:36:06,230 --> 00:36:01,950
okay also wasn't coming up at the end of

868
00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:06,240
the Union is our convention which can be

869
00:36:12,860 --> 00:36:09,210
held on the third thing to the

870
00:36:14,690 --> 00:36:12,870
fourteenth of October at the concourse

871
00:36:16,730 --> 00:36:14,700
and checked with the speakers include

872
00:36:19,220 --> 00:36:16,740
that have been announcement if you're a

873
00:36:22,820 --> 00:36:19,230
fan of overseas podcasters carry poppy

874
00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:22,830
from La Raza carry Alice haveth from

875
00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:25,770
skeptical ke Pamela gang who has her own

876
00:36:30,470 --> 00:36:28,170
podcast with Susan Blackmore who's an

877
00:36:35,180 --> 00:36:30,480
expert on consciousness and body

878
00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:35,190
experiences which is very handy a lot of

879
00:36:37,850 --> 00:36:36,570
locals are there rings and people that

880
00:36:40,700 --> 00:36:37,860
have given you there will be a special

881
00:36:42,590 --> 00:36:40,710
fireside chat section between Allen

882
00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:42,600
Duffy and Pamela gay about astronomy and

883
00:36:47,210 --> 00:36:44,850
the stars etc we're not going to if you

884
00:36:49,460 --> 00:36:47,220
can read fire on this page my compost

885
00:36:52,470 --> 00:36:49,470
but we'll do

886
00:36:54,329 --> 00:36:52,480
captain radiator okay there's that and

887
00:36:55,950 --> 00:36:54,339
it was the night before the convention

888
00:36:57,749 --> 00:36:55,960
starts which is under 12

889
00:36:59,400 --> 00:36:57,759
the Friday there's a social welcome

890
00:37:00,989 --> 00:36:59,410
event everyone welcome to come you don't

891
00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:00,999
have to be a convention that Timoney

892
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:03,970
they cut a lot and it's here that we'll

893
00:37:07,049 --> 00:37:05,410
be having little to force this form of

894
00:37:08,670 --> 00:37:07,059
the well below this floor will be

895
00:37:10,529 --> 00:37:08,680
standing around drinking to imagine and

896
00:37:12,630 --> 00:37:10,539
the one downstairs will hopefully have

897
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:12,640
enough tables we can get a meal etc and

898
00:37:17,130 --> 00:37:14,890
we'll be having a trivia competition on

899
00:37:20,819 --> 00:37:17,140
that might as well happiness with prizes

900
00:37:22,799 --> 00:37:20,829
through those so that's on the Friday

901
00:37:24,180 --> 00:37:22,809
night the evening same time is there

902
00:37:26,789 --> 00:37:24,190
sort of thing that so you're welcome to

903
00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:26,799
come along without commingle hopefully

904
00:37:30,509 --> 00:37:28,210
we will have some speakers here that you

905
00:37:32,099 --> 00:37:30,519
can come in love with flirting good so

906
00:37:34,470 --> 00:37:32,109
keep those in mind exhalation a

907
00:37:36,359 --> 00:37:34,480
convention coming up and of course every

908
00:37:37,670 --> 00:37:36,369
first Thursday of every month is the

909
00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:37,680
skeptics on the carpet here

910
00:37:43,100 --> 00:37:40,290
the officers in the hotel

911
00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:43,110
on this Fox I hey I think that probably

912
00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:44,850
that for announcers to say farewell part

913
00:37:48,440 --> 00:37:46,770
time now to our speaker tonight

914
00:37:50,810 --> 00:37:48,450
limousine right slight member of

915
00:37:53,330 --> 00:37:50,820
Australian skeptics physicist man about

916
00:37:54,860 --> 00:37:53,340
now here's our challenge coordinator who

917
00:37:57,730 --> 00:37:54,870
looks after therefore anyone who

918
00:38:01,280 --> 00:37:57,740
approaches us to try and try for

919
00:38:03,170 --> 00:38:01,290
$100,000 challenge the sightings etc is

920
00:38:05,060 --> 00:38:03,180
the he and I have the ones who find up

921
00:38:06,350 --> 00:38:05,070
to these people that most of you

922
00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:06,360
disappear when they find that we will be

923
00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:07,890
facing in for a challenge actually they

924
00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:10,170
thought you're tough well I think it

925
00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:11,850
tells ready to weak from someone who

926
00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:14,850
wants to sort of a $400,000 so it's

927
00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:16,290
quite exciting actually the rain for the

928
00:38:19,820 --> 00:38:18,090
evening think are from dowsers through

929
00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:19,830
to the psychics to anglers to anything

930
00:38:24,860 --> 00:38:22,650
you know but when he does have in his

931
00:38:26,900 --> 00:38:24,870
spare time he's in my time he's a rocket

932
00:38:27,980 --> 00:38:26,910
man he's actually just today been

933
00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:27,990
appointed head of the experience

934
00:38:35,810 --> 00:38:33,330
basically so congratulations to the

935
00:38:37,220 --> 00:38:35,820
Internet but he is a rocket pioneer in

936
00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:37,230
Australia we're working in rocket

937
00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:39,090
science in Australia so when you say

938
00:38:42,740 --> 00:38:40,170
it's not rocket science

939
00:38:44,870 --> 00:38:42,750
to him it is okay but tonight he came

940
00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:44,880
you're looking at the probably one of

941
00:38:48,290 --> 00:38:46,770
the two most famous physicists any one

942
00:38:51,500 --> 00:38:48,300
of the two most recognizable physicists

943
00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:51,510
of the 20th century Stephen Hawking who

944
00:38:56,270 --> 00:38:53,370
was the author of the apparently the

945
00:38:59,500 --> 00:38:56,280
most unread best summer ever right brief

946
00:39:02,170 --> 00:38:59,510
history of space and time and wherever I

947
00:39:04,660 --> 00:39:02,180
haven't read it

948
00:39:06,610 --> 00:39:04,670
I've had to give me some American if you

949
00:39:09,580 --> 00:39:06,620
haven't read the book but I mean it's

950
00:39:10,870 --> 00:39:09,590
it's classy pop and we'll be able to

951
00:39:13,330 --> 00:39:10,880
have it for you but probably even

952
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:13,340
recommend some better works so without

953
00:39:18,190 --> 00:39:14,930
further adieu and we'll be looking at

954
00:39:23,710 --> 00:39:18,200
the life and loves of Stephen Hawking

955
00:39:25,090 --> 00:39:23,720
okay thanks Tim great well okay Stephen

956
00:39:31,950 --> 00:39:25,100
Hawking his life and legacy

957
00:39:36,150 --> 00:39:34,300
so what did you think they talk on

958
00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:36,160
Stephen Hawking did you hick a little

959
00:39:43,540 --> 00:39:41,210
say you do Hickel at all no that's not

960
00:39:46,420 --> 00:39:43,550
right okay fair enough then but did you

961
00:39:49,240 --> 00:39:46,430
learn anything you didn't know I guess

962
00:39:51,100 --> 00:39:49,250
knew most of the things but you know you

963
00:39:52,780 --> 00:39:51,110
tend to forget in terms of like the

964
00:39:54,490 --> 00:39:52,790
theories and so it was good refresh or

965
00:39:55,450 --> 00:39:54,500
anything for me mm-hmm and what about

966
00:39:57,850 --> 00:39:55,460
yourself

967
00:39:59,020 --> 00:39:57,860
I found the know bound universe very

968
00:40:01,600 --> 00:39:59,030
interesting I don't heard that one

969
00:40:02,050 --> 00:40:01,610
before and how would you explain that to

970
00:40:05,950 --> 00:40:02,060
people

971
00:40:08,290 --> 00:40:05,960
I wouldn't that's the thing because

972
00:40:10,270 --> 00:40:08,300
because Richard and I have a bit of a

973
00:40:12,250 --> 00:40:10,280
rule whenever there's a few things in

974
00:40:13,570 --> 00:40:12,260
physics that we just go off whenever

975
00:40:14,770 --> 00:40:13,580
it's mentioned and what is the thing

976
00:40:17,170 --> 00:40:14,780
that we go off when it's mentioned

977
00:40:19,090 --> 00:40:17,180
Richard I'll Planck time whenever Planck

978
00:40:20,710 --> 00:40:19,100
time is mentioned we basically do a

979
00:40:23,380 --> 00:40:20,720
Mexican wave because it doesn't happen

980
00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:23,390
very often and to neither this

981
00:40:29,550 --> 00:40:25,490
understand it do you understand Planck

982
00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:29,560
time part of time you can get it

983
00:40:34,350 --> 00:40:31,810
well I like is there's more divisions in

984
00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:34,360
one division of plankton than there are

985
00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:35,890
second since the beginning of the

986
00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:39,370
universe that's how small it is that's a

987
00:40:45,810 --> 00:40:43,570
small amount that's the fourth sort of

988
00:40:48,210 --> 00:40:45,820
it's it's it's the singularity's

989
00:40:49,620 --> 00:40:48,220
coordinate like time coordinate we'll

990
00:40:51,900 --> 00:40:49,630
see I'm a bit annoyed because they

991
00:40:53,610 --> 00:40:51,910
invented it because with the Big Bang

992
00:40:55,410 --> 00:40:53,620
stuff had to move faster than the speed

993
00:40:57,720 --> 00:40:55,420
of light and so they invented Planck

994
00:40:59,910 --> 00:40:57,730
time and I go I yeah sure Planck time

995
00:41:01,530 --> 00:40:59,920
yeah and that's about as far as like

996
00:41:03,720 --> 00:41:01,540
getting in Anthony what what oh who's

997
00:41:11,370 --> 00:41:03,730
the aside the physicists green what's

998
00:41:14,430 --> 00:41:11,380
his name yeah Brian great he just waved

999
00:41:15,870 --> 00:41:14,440
me away Brian Cox probably with a

1000
00:41:17,730 --> 00:41:15,880
head-butted me so it's a good thing to

1001
00:41:34,660 --> 00:41:17,740
well then I'll just wander in but enjoy

1002
00:41:38,190 --> 00:41:35,790
[Music]

1003
00:41:39,060 --> 00:41:38,200
South Africa ain't gonna play no Sun

1004
00:41:42,030 --> 00:41:39,070
City there you go

1005
00:41:44,010 --> 00:41:42,040
I know that track I used to play that on

1006
00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:44,020
the radio very cool I think I was any

1007
00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:46,210
person who did um and that work didn't

1008
00:41:52,850 --> 00:41:49,930
it yes yes it did um so what are you

1009
00:41:55,170 --> 00:41:52,860
doing here are you are you secretly

1010
00:41:57,720 --> 00:41:55,180
investigating the nuclear program from

1011
00:41:59,700 --> 00:41:57,730
South Africa they are they restarting

1012
00:42:02,570 --> 00:41:59,710
their nuclear weapons program and you've

1013
00:42:04,950 --> 00:42:02,580
come to you've come to we need to go

1014
00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:04,960
there's so much scandal this so it's

1015
00:42:09,750 --> 00:42:06,610
kind of like it's just I can't even

1016
00:42:11,810 --> 00:42:09,760
possibly comment on it it's still yes so

1017
00:42:14,970 --> 00:42:11,820
what are you doing answer well actually

1018
00:42:17,610 --> 00:42:14,980
I came here because as I was saying

1019
00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:17,620
earlier to Richard the Australian

1020
00:42:20,190 --> 00:42:18,970
skeptics of sort of the rock star

1021
00:42:22,780 --> 00:42:20,200
skeptics that are actually making

1022
00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:22,790
changes in public policy and

1023
00:42:28,550 --> 00:42:25,290
maybe a real change in the world oh yeah

1024
00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:28,560
they are so the Rockstar skip yeah well

1025
00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:29,610
so why do you think they're the

1026
00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:31,890
rockstars or what did they do that's so

1027
00:42:36,110 --> 00:42:33,690
special well I was I was talking only

1028
00:42:38,450 --> 00:42:36,120
about the power of Ellen Spence and I

1029
00:42:41,180 --> 00:42:38,460
have a pack of placebo bands at home

1030
00:42:42,980 --> 00:42:41,190
that I sent out for and wore them in

1031
00:42:44,510 --> 00:42:42,990
front of a bunch of people and then had

1032
00:42:46,370 --> 00:42:44,520
people approaching me that were wearing

1033
00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:46,380
power bands and asking me how well it

1034
00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:48,330
was working and then having them read

1035
00:42:53,630 --> 00:42:52,410
what it actually said on my band so was

1036
00:42:55,790 --> 00:42:53,640
it what you thought it would be tonight

1037
00:42:57,980 --> 00:42:55,800
or did you go home really he's talking

1038
00:42:59,360 --> 00:42:57,990
about Planck time I should leave no I

1039
00:43:00,830 --> 00:42:59,370
enjoyed myself I mean there's stuff on

1040
00:43:04,250 --> 00:43:00,840
the board that I didn't understand and I

1041
00:43:07,970 --> 00:43:04,260
approached him about off yeah I think he

1042
00:43:10,460 --> 00:43:07,980
just makes stuff up well thank you and

1043
00:43:12,830 --> 00:43:10,470
are you off back to South Africa yeah we

1044
00:43:15,410 --> 00:43:12,840
have we're here for a couple of weeks so

1045
00:43:17,780 --> 00:43:15,420
we're actually going to see the Book of

1046
00:43:19,370 --> 00:43:17,790
Mormon oh okay that was that there were

1047
00:43:20,630 --> 00:43:19,380
two things that I really wanted to do

1048
00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:20,640
while we're here in that C Book of

1049
00:43:25,340 --> 00:43:23,850
Mormon it's a bit blue the old book of

1050
00:43:28,250 --> 00:43:25,350
Normans of it blue which it sounded a

1051
00:43:29,870 --> 00:43:28,260
bit blue now what sort of woo is there

1052
00:43:31,220 --> 00:43:29,880
going on in South Africa what is the

1053
00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:31,230
thing that really gets your goat while

1054
00:43:34,580 --> 00:43:33,090
you're over there on many many South

1055
00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:34,590
African street corners there are Flyers

1056
00:43:39,410 --> 00:43:37,170
that they hang out for doctor whoever

1057
00:43:41,660 --> 00:43:39,420
who pretty sure is not a doctor

1058
00:43:43,910 --> 00:43:41,670
badly printed Flyers that say penis said

1059
00:43:46,850 --> 00:43:43,920
penis enlargement penis reduction breast

1060
00:43:49,580 --> 00:43:46,860
enlargement breast reduction find a lost

1061
00:43:53,540 --> 00:43:49,590
lover bring a lost lever back get rid of

1062
00:43:55,190 --> 00:43:53,550
a lost lover a whole lot sorry you've

1063
00:44:06,230 --> 00:43:55,200
got my attention here now where can I do

1064
00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:06,240
this based on any kind of Voodoo culture

1065
00:44:11,330 --> 00:44:08,690
what's it based on it is it's based on

1066
00:44:12,980 --> 00:44:11,340
sangomas which you know kind of people

1067
00:44:14,930 --> 00:44:12,990
traditionally call witch doctors

1068
00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:14,940
although that's witch doctor seems to

1069
00:44:18,130 --> 00:44:16,650
slur in South Africa so they called San

1070
00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:18,140
Gomez

1071
00:44:22,299 --> 00:44:20,210
and your sangoma you will go to and they

1072
00:44:24,670 --> 00:44:22,309
will give you traditional medicine of

1073
00:44:26,200 --> 00:44:24,680
one variety or another and so you get

1074
00:44:28,390 --> 00:44:26,210
all these weird traditional medicine

1075
00:44:30,729 --> 00:44:28,400
ingredients and it's it's really common

1076
00:44:34,799 --> 00:44:30,739
I mean I had my the guy that does my

1077
00:44:37,630 --> 00:44:34,809
garden come in one day with scabies and

1078
00:44:40,690 --> 00:44:37,640
asking me to borrow money so he could go

1079
00:44:43,089 --> 00:44:40,700
and see a sin gormer about it and we had

1080
00:44:45,069 --> 00:44:43,099
to have an hour-long conversation about

1081
00:44:46,720 --> 00:44:45,079
hire to go and see a doctor about it

1082
00:44:49,539 --> 00:44:46,730
because he was literally gonna go and

1083
00:44:51,190 --> 00:44:49,549
get his scabies treated and buy just

1084
00:44:56,470 --> 00:44:51,200
hose him down with some antiseptic or

1085
00:44:58,210 --> 00:44:56,480
didn't up doing what is the treatment

1086
00:44:59,979 --> 00:44:58,220
from scabies it's like a several on that

1087
00:45:01,960 --> 00:44:59,989
it's crazy mr. Eden it's a cream okay

1088
00:45:07,329 --> 00:45:01,970
well and so he was gonna go to a witch

1089
00:45:08,890 --> 00:45:07,339
doctor or sorry I have another

1090
00:45:12,460 --> 00:45:08,900
interesting story for you you talk about

1091
00:45:13,809 --> 00:45:12,470
how the whoo is very evident there's a

1092
00:45:17,890 --> 00:45:13,819
lady at work that was telling me a story

1093
00:45:24,640 --> 00:45:17,900
about how for 500 Rand which is how much

1094
00:45:26,019 --> 00:45:24,650
in dollars $50 yeah you can get a sin

1095
00:45:30,069 --> 00:45:26,029
gamma to have somebody struck by

1096
00:45:32,950 --> 00:45:30,079
lightning for you yes so you can get

1097
00:45:34,859 --> 00:45:32,960
somebody again you have my interest so

1098
00:45:36,579 --> 00:45:34,869
you've got the you can forget about your

1099
00:45:39,099 --> 00:45:36,589
ex-girlfriend and you can have people

1100
00:45:40,809 --> 00:45:39,109
struck by lightning oh yeah well okay

1101
00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:40,819
and I can get just a visa to South

1102
00:45:46,150 --> 00:45:42,410
Africa quite easily yeah yeah yeah

1103
00:45:47,680 --> 00:45:46,160
totally they'll let anybody in so so

1104
00:45:49,749 --> 00:45:47,690
when there's someone at work it's it's

1105
00:45:51,370 --> 00:45:49,759
not like we have at work people that

1106
00:45:53,470 --> 00:45:51,380
they're into star signs there's someone

1107
00:45:56,249 --> 00:45:53,480
at your work that is having black magic

1108
00:45:58,930 --> 00:45:56,259
done yeah yeah absolutely

1109
00:46:01,870 --> 00:45:58,940
maybe that isn't really quite true how

1110
00:46:03,670 --> 00:46:01,880
do you well in her case I'd better the

1111
00:46:06,789 --> 00:46:03,680
500 Rand that she couldn't get me struck

1112
00:46:09,160 --> 00:46:06,799
by lightning oh and you're still here

1113
00:46:12,370 --> 00:46:09,170
I'm still here thank you and where's

1114
00:46:13,720 --> 00:46:12,380
your website you guys got a visit no we

1115
00:46:18,729 --> 00:46:13,730
don't we don't actually have a website

1116
00:46:20,259 --> 00:46:18,739
I'm yeah just Joe citizen yeah I'm

1117
00:46:22,269 --> 00:46:20,269
nothing I'm nothing special

1118
00:46:24,339 --> 00:46:22,279
yeah well well thank you very much and

1119
00:46:26,680 --> 00:46:24,349
please do sit down and watch counselor

1120
00:46:30,309 --> 00:46:26,690
music is one of the greatest movies

1121
00:46:32,420 --> 00:46:30,319
you richly family they're fantastic

1122
00:46:34,759 --> 00:46:32,430
because one of the most controversial

1123
00:46:36,650 --> 00:46:34,769
things that must go on in South Africa

1124
00:46:39,469 --> 00:46:36,660
is um which do they think is the best

1125
00:46:44,089 --> 00:46:39,479
James Bond is it Roger Moore or Sean

1126
00:46:47,359 --> 00:46:44,099
Connery or mr. Craig with the other guy

1127
00:46:52,549 --> 00:46:47,369
he did two in the into two in the 80s or

1128
00:46:53,660 --> 00:46:52,559
90s yes Roger Timothy Dalton look one

1129
00:46:58,390 --> 00:46:53,670
last question I've asked everybody

1130
00:47:04,180 --> 00:47:02,320
right now Deadpool sorry Deadpool cool

1131
00:47:05,890 --> 00:47:04,190
okay yeah I've spoken to a few people

1132
00:47:13,360 --> 00:47:05,900
there okay what's your favorite movie by

1133
00:47:16,050 --> 00:47:13,370
the way Richard my Superman 1979 valerie

1134
00:47:19,270 --> 00:47:16,060
perrine christopher reeve yeah

1135
00:47:21,160 --> 00:47:19,280
and valerie perrine was in it I think

1136
00:47:22,630 --> 00:47:21,170
she was the woman yeah and I keep

1137
00:47:24,280 --> 00:47:22,640
mentioning that because she was in can't

1138
00:47:27,490 --> 00:47:24,290
stop the music the greatest movie ever

1139
00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:27,500
made so how did you enjoy this evening

1140
00:47:30,220 --> 00:47:28,970
well I've been checking the team I'll be

1141
00:47:32,140 --> 00:47:30,230
talking everybody about the whole thing

1142
00:47:33,640 --> 00:47:32,150
what a good evening it was a nice

1143
00:47:35,200 --> 00:47:33,650
turnout it was really interesting to

1144
00:47:39,190 --> 00:47:35,210
talk about Stephen Hawking in some of

1145
00:47:41,170 --> 00:47:39,200
his equations and what he was into and I

1146
00:47:42,970 --> 00:47:41,180
think the audience liked it and some

1147
00:47:45,730 --> 00:47:42,980
spoon bending on the side in fact this

1148
00:47:47,620 --> 00:47:45,740
whole table here were just amazed at my

1149
00:47:50,200 --> 00:47:47,630
lack a spoon beam now add my string

1150
00:47:52,480 --> 00:47:50,210
bending well I'm looking at them in it

1151
00:47:55,480 --> 00:47:52,490
and they are completely underwhelmed by

1152
00:47:57,460 --> 00:47:55,490
your magic it happens every time it's

1153
00:47:59,410 --> 00:47:57,470
very rare that you meet a group of

1154
00:48:05,590 --> 00:47:59,420
people that are completely like oh yeah

1155
00:48:06,910 --> 00:48:05,600
go away so how many spoons you actually

1156
00:48:10,030 --> 00:48:06,920
get through because you actually break

1157
00:48:12,760 --> 00:48:10,040
them don't you yeah tonight for I think

1158
00:48:14,170 --> 00:48:12,770
and then I have to hide them because the

1159
00:48:16,350 --> 00:48:14,180
management sometimes think it's their

1160
00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:16,360
spoons there we go home here's here's a

1161
00:48:23,980 --> 00:48:22,010
spoon left over that's kind of cool

1162
00:48:26,200 --> 00:48:23,990
so everything's done quite well well

1163
00:48:28,540 --> 00:48:26,210
what's next skeptics in the pub oh I

1164
00:48:30,940 --> 00:48:28,550
don't know and in fact listeners I won't

1165
00:48:33,490 --> 00:48:30,950
be here I'll be in California getting

1166
00:48:35,950 --> 00:48:33,500
ready to appear at the skeptical

1167
00:48:38,530 --> 00:48:35,960
there you go so are you actually

1168
00:48:40,150 --> 00:48:38,540
presenting something it's up to the

1169
00:48:41,350 --> 00:48:40,160
organizers but I'll be on a panel or

1170
00:48:42,460 --> 00:48:41,360
something like that la I'm looking

1171
00:48:44,380 --> 00:48:42,470
forward to it

1172
00:48:45,880 --> 00:48:44,390
okay which well I'll head off then and

1173
00:48:49,120 --> 00:48:45,890
I've recommended people we have talked

1174
00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:49,130
about the Beatles we've talked about the

1175
00:48:53,080 --> 00:48:50,810
wide album we've talked about Rupert

1176
00:48:54,520 --> 00:48:53,090
Sheldrake and you haven't have a look at

1177
00:48:56,230 --> 00:48:54,530
his um tam talk

1178
00:48:58,870 --> 00:48:56,240
he might agree with it but have a listen

1179
00:49:00,580 --> 00:48:58,880
to it anyway anything else that we need

1180
00:49:02,710 --> 00:49:00,590
to chat about

1181
00:49:05,170 --> 00:49:02,720
I think that's it man of course the

1182
00:49:08,430 --> 00:49:05,180
thing I like to bring up anytime and the

1183
00:49:11,560 --> 00:49:08,440
thing is you you criminally ignore it is

1184
00:49:13,480 --> 00:49:11,570
the skeptical cats so what is going on

1185
00:49:15,640 --> 00:49:13,490
the cat apparently is pulling things off

1186
00:49:17,740 --> 00:49:15,650
your table and breaking them yeah that

1187
00:49:19,300 --> 00:49:17,750
happens every day and just in fact you

1188
00:49:20,740 --> 00:49:19,310
know the skeptical cats are great and

1189
00:49:22,510 --> 00:49:20,750
they love helping me with the show well

1190
00:49:24,460 --> 00:49:22,520
when I say helping they mean I mean

1191
00:49:25,360 --> 00:49:24,470
trying to get the mouse off the computer

1192
00:49:28,120 --> 00:49:25,370
that's what they do

1193
00:49:29,560 --> 00:49:28,130
hmm they type the end of the show look

1194
00:49:30,940 --> 00:49:29,570
and if people want to go look what is

1195
00:49:33,610 --> 00:49:30,950
Richard Saunders like what does he

1196
00:49:36,640 --> 00:49:33,620
really really like I would suggest look

1197
00:49:40,450 --> 00:49:36,650
up the 1991 Nickelodeon show hi honey

1198
00:49:43,000 --> 00:49:40,460
I'm home be the father of that show and

1199
00:49:45,660 --> 00:49:43,010
that is Richard Saunders it yeah that's

1200
00:49:48,010 --> 00:49:45,670
probably right although sometimes I'm

1201
00:49:49,510 --> 00:49:48,020
you'll find me a bit stressed when I

1202
00:49:51,760 --> 00:49:49,520
think what the hell's I'm gonna put on

1203
00:49:53,500 --> 00:49:51,770
the sceptic zone this week let's have a

1204
00:49:59,350 --> 00:49:53,510
drink Richard and talk about Rupert

1205
00:50:17,829 --> 00:50:06,200
[Music]

1206
00:50:22,640 --> 00:50:17,839
save the date for a colossal saikhan

1207
00:50:24,980 --> 00:50:22,650
2018 bigger venue biggest stars bigger

1208
00:50:28,540 --> 00:50:24,990
ideas bigger fun

1209
00:50:33,829 --> 00:50:28,550
Las Vegas October the 18th to the 21st

1210
00:50:35,300 --> 00:50:33,839
2018 saikhan is already one of the

1211
00:50:37,730 --> 00:50:35,310
planets premiere

1212
00:50:39,920 --> 00:50:37,740
skeptical conferences where hundreds of

1213
00:50:42,050 --> 00:50:39,930
critical thinkers come to Las Vegas the

1214
00:50:44,530 --> 00:50:42,060
city of illusions to hear from the

1215
00:50:48,440 --> 00:50:44,540
leading lights of science and skepticism

1216
00:50:49,220 --> 00:50:48,450
for 2018 we want saikhan to be bigger

1217
00:50:54,260 --> 00:50:49,230
than ever

1218
00:50:56,420 --> 00:50:54,270
we've even booked a bigger hotel come to

1219
00:50:58,910 --> 00:50:56,430
Las Vegas at the Westgate Resort and

1220
00:51:02,180 --> 00:50:58,920
Casino to see the brilliant and

1221
00:51:05,599 --> 00:51:02,190
hilarious Stephen Fry on stage with

1222
00:51:08,420 --> 00:51:05,609
Richard Dawkins an opening night talk by

1223
00:51:11,450 --> 00:51:08,430
Steven Pinker on the ideas behind his

1224
00:51:14,599 --> 00:51:11,460
new book enlightenment now the

1225
00:51:20,060 --> 00:51:14,609
triumphant return of James the amazing

1226
00:51:22,940 --> 00:51:20,070
Randi plus New York Times science writer

1227
00:51:26,180 --> 00:51:22,950
Carl Zimmer psychologist and magnetics

1228
00:51:29,510 --> 00:51:26,190
expert Susan Blackmore the sy babe

1229
00:51:31,579 --> 00:51:29,520
Yvette Don Timon virologist and advocate

1230
00:51:34,670 --> 00:51:31,589
for science-based medicine Paul offered

1231
00:51:37,520 --> 00:51:34,680
and many many more along with comic

1232
00:51:40,220 --> 00:51:37,530
musician George rub serving as master of

1233
00:51:42,530 --> 00:51:40,230
ceremonies a magic show from banachek

1234
00:51:44,760 --> 00:51:42,540
author book signings and of course a

1235
00:51:46,270 --> 00:51:44,770
Halloween costume party

1236
00:51:49,460 --> 00:51:46,280
[Music]

1237
00:51:52,040 --> 00:51:49,470
it's true conspiracy theorists

1238
00:51:54,700 --> 00:51:52,050
quacks peddling fake medicine and the

1239
00:51:57,770 --> 00:51:54,710
deniers of evolution climate change and

1240
00:52:01,310 --> 00:51:57,780
vaccine science are bigger threats than

1241
00:52:03,760 --> 00:52:01,320
ever with saikhan 2018 let's show them

1242
00:52:05,640 --> 00:52:03,770
that they have just met their match

1243
00:52:08,500 --> 00:52:05,650
[Music]

1244
00:52:10,300 --> 00:52:08,510
we'll see you in Las Vegas for more

1245
00:52:12,400 --> 00:52:10,310
information and to book your tickets

1246
00:52:17,190 --> 00:52:12,410
visit si si

1247
00:52:22,340 --> 00:52:17,200
conference org that sy conference dot or

1248
00:52:33,410 --> 00:52:22,350
[Music]

1249
00:52:40,710 --> 00:52:36,060
thank you for listening to the skeptic

1250
00:52:42,270 --> 00:52:40,720
zone and I think I mentioned this on an

1251
00:52:45,930 --> 00:52:42,280
episode a little while ago I bought a

1252
00:52:47,790 --> 00:52:45,940
back scratcher and the cats just love it

1253
00:52:50,630 --> 00:52:47,800
in fact Mord is still sleeping here on

1254
00:52:54,570 --> 00:52:50,640
the chair beside me I've just uh hey

1255
00:52:58,980 --> 00:52:56,820
visualize a cat sort of rolling around

1256
00:53:05,160 --> 00:52:58,990
on the back looking very smug and happy

1257
00:53:07,500 --> 00:53:05,170
and you get the idea mm-hmm

1258
00:53:09,470 --> 00:53:07,510
a big thank you to maenad for that crazy

1259
00:53:12,960 --> 00:53:09,480
skeptics in the pub that was interesting

1260
00:53:15,900 --> 00:53:12,970
are you right there no no that's a

1261
00:53:16,590 --> 00:53:15,910
chance not you're not your scratching

1262
00:53:19,350 --> 00:53:16,600
post

1263
00:53:20,940 --> 00:53:19,360
big thanks to Maynard for his skeptics

1264
00:53:22,830 --> 00:53:20,950
in the pub wonderful to meet new people

1265
00:53:25,320 --> 00:53:22,840
visiting from South African we had some

1266
00:53:28,460 --> 00:53:25,330
other new people there too skeptics in

1267
00:53:32,190 --> 00:53:28,470
the pub in Sydney has been going for

1268
00:53:36,090 --> 00:53:32,200
lost count 15 years in in that in that

1269
00:53:37,680 --> 00:53:36,100
area Wow we've had so many speakers over

1270
00:53:40,340 --> 00:53:37,690
the every month we try to have a new

1271
00:53:43,230 --> 00:53:40,350
speaker for you however an old speaker

1272
00:53:45,210 --> 00:53:43,240
or any speaker or normally it's it's a

1273
00:53:47,850 --> 00:53:45,220
lot of fun the great social evening end

1274
00:53:49,170 --> 00:53:47,860
is always spoon bending lessons too but

1275
00:53:51,060 --> 00:53:49,180
coming up on next week's show it's a

1276
00:53:51,510 --> 00:53:51,070
surprise because I don't know what it is

1277
00:53:54,060 --> 00:53:51,520
yet

1278
00:53:56,580 --> 00:53:54,070
I'll find something one of my reporters

1279
00:53:58,710 --> 00:53:56,590
will send me a lovely report I'm sure or

1280
00:54:01,320 --> 00:53:58,720
I'll find somebody to interview or

1281
00:54:03,150 --> 00:54:01,330
something will happen and thank you to

1282
00:54:04,860 --> 00:54:03,160
those people who wrote to me saying how

1283
00:54:07,380 --> 00:54:04,870
much they enjoyed last week's episode

1284
00:54:09,960 --> 00:54:07,390
with the interview we had with Bob

1285
00:54:12,330 --> 00:54:09,970
Connolly the director of the original

1286
00:54:15,360 --> 00:54:12,340
water divining documentary James Randi

1287
00:54:17,930 --> 00:54:15,370
in Australia but for this week as I put

1288
00:54:20,910 --> 00:54:17,940
my mind more and more to episode number

1289
00:54:25,190 --> 00:54:20,920
500 oh and before I go as you may have

1290
00:54:30,240 --> 00:54:25,200
heard in the may not spooky action I do

1291
00:54:33,900 --> 00:54:30,250
intend to be at skeptic owl in Berkeley

1292
00:54:36,300 --> 00:54:33,910
in early June if you were if you're

1293
00:54:38,760 --> 00:54:36,310
coming along to skeptic al come up and

1294
00:54:41,310 --> 00:54:38,770
say hello I'd love to see you but for

1295
00:54:43,170 --> 00:54:41,320
this week this is Richard Saunders and

1296
00:54:45,720 --> 00:54:43,180
more dekap because Henrietta just left

1297
00:54:49,910 --> 00:54:45,730
and discussed signing off from Sydney

1298
00:54:55,320 --> 00:54:52,410
you've been listening to the skeptic

1299
00:55:02,010 --> 00:54:55,330
zone podcast please visit our website at

1300
00:55:05,510 --> 00:55:02,020
wwlp.com tax and to access the bat

1301
00:55:08,190 --> 00:55:05,520
catalog of episodes going back to 2008

1302
00:55:11,460 --> 00:55:08,200
you can follow the skeptic zone podcast

1303
00:55:13,740 --> 00:55:11,470
on twitter at skeptic zone visit our

1304
00:55:17,100 --> 00:55:13,750
facebook page or leave a review on

1305
00:55:17,520 --> 00:55:17,110
itunes you can also support the skeptic

1306
00:55:23,420 --> 00:55:17,530
zone

1307
00:55:25,800 --> 00:55:23,430
podcast is an independent production

1308
00:55:27,930 --> 00:55:25,810
reviews and opinions expressed on the

1309
00:55:30,270 --> 00:55:27,940
skeptic zone are not necessarily those

1310
00:55:32,110 --> 00:55:30,280
of Australian skeptics or any other